Comments on: Salvation is what God did for us

By: Theodore A. Jones

Theodore A. Jones — Sun, 15 Sep 2013 02:23:21 +0000

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 Well this fellow isn't J. Piper, but he ain't wrong as Piper is.

By: John Groupse

John Groupse — Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:07:19 +0000

The sun's glory is life giving light. No light, no sun. The Father's glory is every act He performs. Our understanding of it has no impact on His glory. Our appreciation of it keeps us in the proper relationship with Him and prospers our growth and divine intimacy. A relationship is always limited by the one willing to give the least to it. Our growth comes from the willful discipline to do what we should and not what we want. The voice of should is God's, the voice of want is our limitation and why we need salvation. God's glory cannot shine any brighter and will never diminish.

By: Jon Ericson

Jon Ericson — Fri, 13 Jul 2012 17:04:09 +0000

I agree with you on all of this. The trouble pops up when we fail to tremble at the severity of our fall and the goodness of God's grace to us. That's what Bonhoeffer means by "cheap grace". When we care so little about the spiritual change within us that there's no outward difference between the saved and the unsaved, we've cheapened Jesus' sacrifice for us to a mere nothing.

I recently used this quote from John Piper:

God loves to behold His glory reflected in His works. So the eternal happiness of the triune God spilled over in the work of creation and redemption. And since this original happiness was God’s delight in His own glory, therefore the happiness that He has in all His works of creation and redemption is nothing other than a delight in His own glory. This is why God has done all things, from creation to consummation, for the preservation and display of His glory. All His works are simply the spillover of His infinite exuberance for His own excellence.

The truly weird thing about this is that because of Jesus, we can participate in the work of glorifying God!

By: JohnGroupse

JohnGroupse — Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:48:45 +0000

Good works certainly flow from a greatful heart, however , it is hard to imagine Jesus conditionally offering salvation with the anticipation of a behavioral payoff. Godly love has no price. The act of creation, the breath of life and the love-igniting touch to the heart by an eternal Father sets the stage. We fall. He offers an emancipation process (Jesus) isn't the only work that is required acceptance?

By: monikamichael

monikamichael — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 21:23:08 +0000

"evangelical position is that works are necessary in response to salvation" Oh yes. I think I've read on this somewhere. If I'm not mistaken, catholic position is that works are a contributing factor to salvation, while evangelical is that good works are a result of being saved. Thin line of difference, creates a big fuss nonetheless. :-)

"Well, you might need to watch Aliens again" Yes indeed. I'll put it up this weekend and then come back and enjoy your analogy. ;-)

By: Jon Ericson

Jon Ericson — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:49:35 +0000

Well, you might need to watch Aliens again. ;-) My point was that we are sort of like Newt, trapped by the Alien Queen, which represents sin. In that situation, we need a Ripley to rescue us. (Probably too subtle. Sorry about that.)

As for holding the Catholic position—I might be coming around to it, in a way. But, the evangelical position is that works are necessary in response to salvation. I'm counting on waxeagle to really hit the "faith alone" angle. ;-)

By: Jon Ericson

Jon Ericson — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:42:25 +0000

Good question and thanks for the compliment!

In Ezekiel 14, we read that Noah, Daniel and Job were righteous men who could save themselves, but not anyone else. I think in the pre-Christian epoch, God did call out certain people to rise above the rest of the world. God's purpose was to save everyone via the Jewish temple system, but it failed to even save most Jews. So what God did via Jesus was surprising: a righteous man who condemned the best system of human morality around (see Mark 7) and yet fulfilled all of it's promises.

Now, I think the Church is being formed to fulfill the promises of the temple system. We really can't obtain individual righteousness in the same way that the patriarchs did, in my opinion. Our righteousness comes from Jesus. In fact, I think even Noah's righteousness was possible in anticipation of Jesus.

But I admit, I didn't research this post as much as it deserved and I look forward to being corrected in the next few weeks. ;-)

By: monikamichael

monikamichael — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 15:26:37 +0000

"Salvation is a bit like a walkie-talkie: you need both faith and works or else you don’t really have salvation." I thought faith plus works was the catholic position.

And though it looks cool, from the text I can't see how that Aliens poster is relevant here. :-|

By: Bruce Alderman

Bruce Alderman — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:59:08 +0000

Good use of vivid analogies!

But I'm not sure I understand the meaning of this one sentence:

Occasionally an individual will achieve a greater level of righteousness than their contemporaries, but when sin rubs against human institutions God’s priorities usually get lost in the shuffle.

Is your point that God works differently with individuals than with groups, or are you saying something else?